FORREST SURNAME DNA RESULTS

Introduction and Results Presentation

Most of the analyses reported here were performed by Family Tree DNA (FTDNA) with one set of results performed by Relative Genetics (RelGen), another by GeneBase, and a third by Ancestry. The primary data for the sets of results currently available are given in the accompanying Table of Results. In the table the order of the first 67 markers (up to DYS565) is that given by FTDNA. Where values are shown for addditional markers they were analyzed by GeneBase, Relative Genetics or Ancestry. The conventions used to define each of the first 67 DYS loci are those currently used by FTDNA. Most other companies now define GATA H4 as TAGA H4; if defined as TAGA H4 then each of the values given in the table for this locus should be increased by one unit. The conventions used for defining the additional marker values are those of SMGF (see SMGF table for camparison to results from other laboratories). According to FTDNA, those DYS sites given in red in the table headings are ones that tend to mutate more rapidly. One column in the table, titled Ysearch ID, gives this ID code for the participants in order to facilitate examining their marker results in the Ysearch database. The table also has a column headed Haplo which gives the predicted haplogroup for each participant. The meaning of this term will be considered later. In addition to the results table with the primary data, another table titled Ancestors lists the earliest known Forrest ancestors of the participants. The Ancestors table can be accessed either by clicking on this term here or at the top of the page, or by clicking the code for a particular individual in the primary results table.

As indicated in the table, five groups (A, B, C, D and E) have been found where the DNA results match as indicated by the color coding. In each of these groups when the marker values match the box is colored, but one of the boxes is not colored when the marker values do not match. Although each of the participants in the four groups match those in that group, the DNA profiles for each of Groups A, B, C and D are quite different from one another. Also, these DNA profiles are quite different from each of those in Group X; in this group none of the profiles match. When DNA profiles match it is likely that those participants share a common ancestor in the not too distant past (for example, in the past 500 years), but when the profiles do not match it is unlikely that they share a common ancestor within the past thousands of years or more. Thus, the results to date indicate that there were at least 11 different initiators of Forrest lines, 6 for those in Group X and one each for those in Groups A to E. However, as more Forrest participants are analyzed one suspects that additional Forrest profiles will be observed and that matches to some of those currently in Group X will also be found,

That the first three in Group A match is not surprising since they are known to be related as indicated in the Ancestors table. The observation that their 37 marker profiles are similar does prove, however, that there has not been a non-paternal event in any of their lines since their common ancestor. The fourth participant in Group A (F-021) was not previously known to be related to the other three but the similarity of his profile to those of the others in Group A strongly implies that they all share a common ancestor in the recent past (less than 500 years). One interesting aspect of the Group A DNA profile is that it is very similar to a variety termed the Northwest Irish Variety because it is common in Northwest Ireland (about 20% of the males in that area). However, it is also found to some extent in Scotland where the Forrest ancestors of the Group A participants come from. Some have conjectured that people with this signature are descendants of the legendary fifth-century king 'Niall of the Nine Hostages' or his close relatives. David Wilson has a web page with more details on this particular DNA profile.

The participants in each of Groups B, C and E were not previously aware that they are related but the DNA results clearly indicate that the participants in each group share a common ancestor in the recent past. This illustrates the power of the DNA technique because now these participants can share information about their lines with the knowledge that at some point their lines converge. It is of interest that the surname of one of the participants (F-017) in Group B is not Forrest but is Cain. Since the earliest known ancestor of F-017 was known to be an orphan, the results strongly imply that his all male line actually was initiated by a Group B line Forrest. Similarly two of the participants in Group C have a surname of Dick rather than Forrest. Although there is currently no known connection between these Dick lines and the Group C Forrests, the results again strongly imply that they have a common ancestor in the recent past (probably sometime within the last 500 years). Unfortunately, however, the DNA method cannot give a definitive answer to how long ago their common ancestor lived; that can only be determined by traditional genealogical methods.

It is not too surprising that the two participants in Group D match since they are known to be related as indicated in the Ancestors table.

Haplogroups and Deep Ancestry

In the DNA analyses summarized in the table, what is actually being measured at each DYS site are so-called STRs or Short Tandem Repeats. The marker values are a measure of how frequently particular sequences of DNA bases are repeated at each DYS site on the Y-chromosome. In an attempt to place humans on a philogenetic tree, anthropologists have also in recent years used so-called SNPs or Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms and correlated their findings with the ethnicities of various people and their movement throughout history and prehistory. As more data become available it has been possible to correlate certain patterns of STR marker values with the SNP analysis and therefore arrive at suggestions concerning the deep ancestry (5 to 10 thousand years or more) of individuals from their STR values. In the SNP analysis investigators assign various letters, or letters and numbers, to different branches on the human philogenetic tree. These are referred to as haplogroups. Whit Athey has developed a formula for calculating the probable haplogroup from STR data and also at the FTDNA web site most participants receive an estimate of their suspected haplogroup. In the Haplo column of the table are given either the predicted haplogroups (when shown in black) or the actual haplogroups measured by direct SNP analysis (when shown in bold green).

As indicated in the table, most of the Forrest participants analyzed to date are predicted to be in haplogroup R1b1b2. This is not surprising since the majority of British men are in this haplogroup and the immigrant ancestors to most of the current participants have probably come from Britain. The R1b1b2 haplogroup is not only common in Britain but is found throughout Europe with over 50% of all European men being R1b1. By SNP analysis those in Group A have been shown to belong specifically to the R1b1b2a1b5 haplogroup which was expected since this is characteristic of the so-called Northwest Irish Variety of R1b1b2.

The haplogroup for the two participants in Group D is E1b1b1. This haplogroup is much less common in Britain than R1b1b2 but it is known to occur there to some extent. The E1b1b1 haplogroup is believed to have evolved in the Middle East and is currently especially common around the Mediterranean, southern Europe, and in north and east Africa.

Summary

The number of participants in the Forrest DNA project is still relatively small so it is perhaps not too surprising that few matches have yet been found. As more results become available one expects that more matches will be observed. Consequently, all those with Forrest lines are encouraged to have some male from their line analyzed.

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Last updated May 2009